"Born-Again" Part Three: Subjective and Objective Truth

Points well stated. I would add one thing however to my previous post since it was elaborated on in reply.

In regards to truth and the nature of it: The bible is largely objective truth. Our experiences with it are subjective, but our beliefs and way of thinking must be brought in line with the objective standards of God's Word.

I agree to a certain extent, but let me add that the movement from “not being in line” with the objective standards of God’s Word towards “being in line” with the objective standards of God’s Word is a subjective experience. It is a subjective experience by definition.

Also, remember how I am using the word subjective (I know that you, Athosxc, know my use of the term, but for those who may not ...)

In our postmodern society, subjectivity is often understood to mean that “truth consists of the perceptions, arguments, and language of an individual point of view, and hence influenced in accordance with a particular bias.” In other words, subjective truth is “the ways things seem to one or another”. This is not how I use the term subjective. My use of the term is drawn from its more philosophical usage, particularly as it is expressed by Soren Kierkegaard. One can see such an understanding also in the works of Brunner, R. Niebuhr, Moody and Buber.

Kierkegaard argued in Concluding Unscientific Postscript to Philosophical Fragments that "subjectivity is truth" and "truth is subjectivity." This has to do with a distinction between what is objectively true and an individual's subjective relation (such as indifference or commitment) to that truth. People who in some sense believe the same things may relate to those beliefs quite differently.

Two people may both agree to the objective truth or fact that “salvation is by grace through faith”, but this agreement of the fact may lead only one of them to choose to actually accept this gift of salvation through faith. For the one who chooses not to accept this gift, the objective truth that “salvation is by grace through faith” is of little to no value.


A very simplified example would be John 14:6. When Jesus says "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man comes unto the father but through me", that is an objective truth. It doesn't matter my examples of how I feel "closer to god" when I'm burning incense at the Buddhist temple, or praying towards Mecca 5 times daily as a Muslim, or anything else. If I don't come to God through Christ, I'm never going to get to God. My subjective experiences don't change the objective nature of the truth of God's word.

And this follows what I was saying above. Subjective truth in the Christian sense of the term involves a change in the individual through a personal relationship with God in Christ.

It is not merely about agreeing that the Christian Faith is true. Even the Satan may believe as much! And, as you said, it’s not about feeling close to God but by being close to God in a very personal and relational way.

Remember that the Hebrew word for “know” (yada) is a relational knowledge aside from the idea of c

John 14:6 itself emphasizes the personal relationship necessary. Jesus is a personal being in a personal relationship with God the Father (of whom Jesus frequently refers to by the intimate name, Abba) who is a personal being in relationship with the Son. All who desire to come into a personal relationship with God the Father must do so through the Son. Indeed, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is the one in a personal relationship with God the Father. Believers are brought into the corporate Christ and it is in the corporate Christ that we come into a personal relationship with God.

But agreeing to this objective faith that Christ is THE way is pointless unless it causes the individual subject to act. There are plenty of people who unfortunately agree that Christ is THE way but who never make a personal decision to engage in a saving relationship in him. Even worse, many come into a saving relationship and then fall away by rejecting that relationship. These people agree with the fact that Christ is THE way but they nevertheless reject acting upon that knowledge.


I will agree with you that mental assent to intellectual points and arguments does not come close to being a proper definition of faith. However, without that same mental assent to those intellectual points and arguments, our subjective experiences are groundless and hollow, and ultimately lead not to salvation, but to death. I I claim to follow Christ, but don't believe the truth of scripture, then my claim is false. Why? Because the Bible is God's Word. You can't claim to follow someone, yet deny what they say and deny what they hold dear. It is a mental and logical inconsistency to try and is ultimately false.

Agreed, but we must also realize that even under the influence of the Holy Spirit there are going to be believers who reject certain teachings for selfish reasons. Other believers will stick to their traditions no matter the Scriptural evidence because it brings them mental comfort. They may use a “bad” set of NT texts. They may reject the epistle of James or accept the Apocrypha writings. Other people will just make hermeneutical errors and be honestly wrong. We all do such things at times: we’ve all done it, we all are doing it now, and we will all do it again. This in no way should keep use from either teaching the correct interpretation of the Scriptures or learning from them. Rather it should encourage us be merciful to those who are making the same mistakes as we. It should also encourage us to constantly review our theology and bring our thoughts to God in fear and trembling.


I wish I could remember the exact phrase, because it stated both our points excellently, but it was close to this:

"Truth without love is legalism, and love with truth is hypocrisy"...it's close to that. Anyway, the point is that if all we have is a mental understanding, we are, as Jesus said, no better than the demons who have a much better mental understanding of things than we do....they've seen God, they've fought him, they've lost, they're still fighting....and still losing.

But if we don't subvert our own will enough to accept the objective truth of God's Word, regardless of our own subjective experience, then our subjective experience will lead us falsely....or as the Scriptures say, "There is a way which seems right to a man (insert subjectivity), but in the end it leads to death (Lack of objective truth guiding their subjective experience)"....(Proverbs 14:12 and 16:25)


I agree. Of course, as you know, among orthodox Christians, the problem is not about believing the Word of God. We all want to do that. Rather the problem is about what the Word of God is.

We have the meaning of the Scriptures, but we also have the interpretation of the meaning of the Scriptures. Those are not always the same thing. We can all say that we believe the truth of the Scriptures but we may not all agree what the Scriptures are saying.

The problems associated with this are legion: sin, cultural bias, individual bias, bad translations, textual problems, cultural ignorance, peer pressure, doubt, human finiteness, etc.

And God (by grace!) sees fit to allow us to make both guilty and innocent errors of interpretation. Thankfully, he gives us all enough knowledge to be saved.